Forums General Topics All Grain Brewing Trub removal for all grain brewers

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  • #16086
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi. Do any all grain brewers mind posting how they are getting on with cold trub in their WilliamsWarn? Are you leaving it in during fermentation and is clarification taking two steps as per normal or do you need a 3rd clearing?

    #16379
    roger mellie
    Participant

    Ian

    Im still experimenting but in general I am just leaving the Hot and Cold break and dealing with the fact that 3 clarifications might be required.

    That said I made a Ruination clone with ~ 200gms of hops and the colloidal clarifier wouldn’t settle the hop material so I just kegged through a 1um filter – worked well.

    Cheers

    #16380
    avensgarth
    Participant

    Hey Roger,

    I failed miserably with my Ruination clone. I think it came down to the yeast and dropping the temp before it was finished.

    It cleared really well though with 3 clarifications…

    Cheers, Christian.

    #16381
    rbolton
    Participant

    Hello

    Sometimes I have to go through three clarifications and the plastic bottle i sometimes have to empty more than once. One thing that has helped is that i’ve started using pellet hops instead of whole, the pellet hops seems to catch alot of the trub and leave it at the bottom of my boiling vessel. Does seem to depend on what your brewing and which yeast your using too.

    #16382
    jerome
    Participant

    Try and remove as much as possible in the whirlpool is key.

    I did a Pliny clone recently that had 250g hops in the boil and 107g of dry hops over a 2 week period in the WW.

    Process was as follows:

    1) Whirlpool and let cool wort sit for an hour
    2) Pump cooled wort into WW, using rotating racking arm on kettle to avoid trub as much as possible
    3) After beer cooled to 5C for 1 day, remove full sediment bottle (mainly trub) and replace.
    4) Release pressure and add dry hops. Re-pressurise (sediment bottle approx 1/3 full)
    5) After dry hop schedule remove dry hops and clarify with 50ml clarification agent
    6) Bottle was now just over half full and beer not quite clear. So did another 30ml clarification without changing the bottle.
    7) Bottle now 95% full but clear beer on top
    8) Remove bottle and keg beer

    #16383
    roger mellie
    Participant

    Agree with all of that – I just think there needs to be a slight recalibration of the Grain to Brain ratio when doing either ‘big’ beers or ones with lots of hops. Simply – you just have to wait longer for the settling process to cope with the extra break material.

    And I think the flocculation aspect of the yeast is crucial.

    S-04 is a perfect yeast for the WW in my opinion. This is S-04 after 2 clarifications and 5 days.

    [attachment=0:2tmkervf]IMG_0589.jpg[/attachment:2tmkervf]

    #16384
    blair
    Participant

    One of the best things I bought for this is a HopRocket … which aside from giving more hoppy goodness, the cone hops act as nice natural filter when transferring wort into the WW. It makes a BIG difference.

    @Christian, nice to see you here! One thing to note regarding Stone clones, is that Stone dry hop at fermentation temperature (generally 19-20 degrees, depending on the beer), i.e. before chilling. I’ve done the same and it works great 🙂

    #16385
    jimbo12a
    Participant

    Trub removal is dead easy, I do all grain, read heaps of trub, in my 50 Litre Braumeister, the ideal companion for the WilliamsWarn. I finish my boil, a good whirlpool is almost hopeless, the heating elements stop this, so I let the wert settle for about 20 minutes using a double dose of finings, at the 10 minute level and at flame out. Makes a pancake of fairly firm trub. The Braumeister drain is high up, this avoids the trub going into the Hop Rocket
    The wert is still up round the 90Deg.C. mark, so I run it through a Hop Rocket filled with rice hulls, straight into a 23 litre No Chill Cube. I do 2 of these, they are filled so that there is no air whatsoever in them, lock the cap on hard and let the brew cool over night. What trub that is left and cold break is on the bottom of the cube.
    I empty the cube via a March Pump with the suction above the sediment layer into the WilliamsWarn.
    Using this technique, I only need to use two lots of Clarification Agent. The first time the sediment bottle is almost full, so its emptied, the second Clarification is exactly as shown on the final Clarification in the WilliamsWarn Manual.

    #16386
    roger mellie
    Participant

    Hi Jimbo

    What kettle finings are you using? Brewbrite?

    I hear what you say about no chilling in cubes – but I am worried about plastic at 90 degrees. I have recently been no-chilling into cornys and putting a co2 purge on them to take up the headspace. There is just something about brewing 100% in stainless that makes more sense to me.

    Doing a post boil settling period of some sorts does seem to be the go,

    Cheers

    RM

    #16387
    jimbo12a
    Participant

    @Roger Mellie wrote:

    Hi Jimbo

    What kettle finings are you using? Brewbrite?

    I hear what you say about no chilling in cubes – but I am worried about plastic at 90 degrees. I have recently been no-chilling into cornys and putting a co2 purge on them to take up the headspace. There is just something about brewing 100% in stainless that makes more sense to me.

    Doing a post boil settling period of some sorts does seem to be the go,

    Cheers

    RM

    I use two things that are possibly unfamiliar to home brewers. When I add my water for the mash in the Braumeister, I mix Glucanase in the water, this gives me approx. 90% extraction of the sugars from the malt, without all those nasty tannins. All commercial breweries use this. That’s how the Bean Counters like it, very little waste.
    This product also allows me to make big beers and barley wines in the Braumeister.
    My finings are a product called Compac CG. Commercial brewery stuff again

    Re: The No Chill Containers, they were tested and passed by CSIRO to be BPA free and able to withstand liquids at and above boiling temperatures, they are certified to 240 Deg. C., without releasing nasty stuff into the food or beverage contained therein.. These cubes are made solely for the food industry. They are clearly marked externally near the bottom of the cube in the plastic with an Australian accreditation number also. All my cubes were formerly liquid yeast containers for a Mega Swill Brewery and they ship yeast in these all over the world, and they are frozen when this happens. The cubes are used by a very large No Chill Fraternity in Australia. They can contain food products under vacuum for periods of 24 months or more.
    I’ve been using them for about 5 years now, including the storing for extended periods, my unfermented wort, I’ve not noticed any off taste or ill effects from using these. You can even micro wave these, but they are a tight fit into a domestic micro wave.
    It’s the same material that the WilliamsWarn Sediment Bottle is made of, except the cubes are opaque, to stop light spoilage.
    Sorry about the long winded answers, but I do have industrial chemists on tap to help me, plus Australia’s top research facility. No names allowed here! I used to work for them before I retired.

    #16388
    roger mellie
    Participant

    All good stuff Jimbo

    Sounds like you have access to some good adjuncts there. Fortunately with the Braumeister its pretty easy to get 80% efficiency and I guess in a 20L batch the difference between hitting your OG or not is a matter of a couple of hundred grams of base malt – not another ton (as it would be in megaswill land)

    Being an avid lurker on AHB (as Im sure you are Jimbo) there is an exodus away from plastic – personally I am happier with my (almost) no plastic brewery.

    Freezing Liquid Yeast? Now theres another story.

    Cheers

    RM

    #16389
    jimbo12a
    Participant

    @Roger Mellie wrote:

    All good stuff Jimbo

    Sounds like you have access to some good adjuncts there. Fortunately with the Braumeister its pretty easy to get 80% efficiency and I guess in a 20L batch the difference between hitting your OG or not is a matter of a couple of hundred grams of base malt – not another ton (as it would be in megaswill land)

    Being an avid lurker on AHB (as Im sure you are Jimbo) there is an exodus away from plastic – personally I am happier with my (almost) no plastic brewery.

    Freezing Liquid Yeast? Now theres another story.

    Cheers

    RM

    I don’t really lurk around the various sites, taking advice from the internet trolls that hide behind an anonymous address. These trolls are there to burst your bubble.
    I have no need to, I get all my information and supplies from my Mega Swill. If I strike problems, the lab is there for me.
    I find Ian, is a wealth of knowledge also.

    #16390
    elz
    Participant

    Hey Jimbo
    I have been eyeing off the Braumeister for while now. Nearly saved the coin to buy one to. Im thinking of getting the 20 lt as i dont want to make double batches. I see you have a 50 lt. Is there any advantage of having this size if only brewing one brew at a time for the WW. Thanks in advance
    Elz

    #16391
    roger mellie
    Participant

    Elz

    Certainly not answering on behalf of Jimbo but I procrastinated long and hard about 20L vs 50L. You probably know already but here are the pros and cons (from the investigations I made)

    Can buy a half pipe for the 50L and make 20L batches – so you don’t have to make double batches.
    The 50L needs a 15A power supply
    ‘Generally’ you need some form of pulley arrangement to lift the malt pipe out of a 50L (some will disagree with this but knowing how heavy a full 20L malt pipe gets watch your back muscles)

    But they are good – make no mistake.

    Cheers

    #16392
    elz
    Participant

    Hi roger
    I have thought about the 20 l malt pipe for the 50 l BM. I am kinda heading towards the 20 l BM as it seems easier piece of kit. My only real concern is high gravity beers. I enjoy ipa stle beers which reqire an abv of 6-7.5%+. This is where the 50 l with the 20 l malt pipe would shine ( high gravity beers generally). Or i could always add some dme, and also save some money.
    Thanks for your thoughts
    Cheers
    Elz

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